Reward Amendments to CUIP-003 (Mod Program)

Draft Proposals
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This is an interesting way of discussing - definitely not a “good faith” argument.

Wow what a wall of text here. Clearly many of us don’t have as much time as some others. I did try to read it all nevertheless.

Implying you are busy and maybe the rest of us have nothing better to do. Thank you so much for reading the “walls of text”.

I would likely try defend such a high amount of money myself if I were on the other side.

Implying that those asking for the compensation are doing so because they are greedy and not because they think they are worth that. Trying to pretend to empathize while insulting them.

But these kinds of “arguments” don’t really support ones case, they only make them look … challenged.

More insults

my motivation was very high and I was a very active and helpful member

This is debatable by going through your chat history on discord. It is 100% true in shorter bursts and time periods, but if we have the qualifying criteria was “they were helpful for a period of time” then a large section of discord would qualify. Consistency, tone and rational response are probably some of the top qualifications and you can see if you fit in.

I even started calculating how much my CU-account was worth and if I’d be willing to sell it. These thoughts never crossed my mind before. Guess I will be taking a step back for now to clear my thoughts.

Nice, add a little bit of emotional blackmail as well.

Getting to the meat of your argument:

All I say is localize and give them a good payment based on their cost of living.

Other than the additional overhead this adds (verifying that they are local, which would involve KYCing), the team has to determine what the pay rates are for certain region. Given that the entire scope of the work is completely online, and directly comparable to each other this will introduce a sense of unfairness. The mods do equal work, and could take over each other’s shifts, but they get compensated differently just because where they live? Localization might make sense if the work was also localized. i…e if you are a supermarket manager in Vietnam, vs in Germany, the pay should not be the same even though the positions are the same because you are working differently even though in name it’s the same. Another example is software engineering. Since remote working has been pushed forward by years due to covid, remote engineers are earning more and more, and getting closer in parity to western countries. There is still a gap, but western countries are currently trending down and the others are trending up.

This is the web3 ethos. Fair pay for fair work. While we are not at parity for equally comparable work, we are slowly getting there. What you are suggesting is basically start doing wage arbitrage and hire the cheapest we can get. Your suggestion of “localization” is not practical - if most mods are being paid $200 it will only attract a particular cohort of people. Someone from let’s say Germany is not even going to consider it. Let’s say they do, and are paid $1000, does that seem fair to you? Ethically are you ok with it? I get that you’re in finance, and you may or may not make your money using this arbitrage, one of the reasons people are really excited about web3 is this sense of fairness. You seem to want to disregard this.

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i forgot about Nowan <3

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Discussion has gotten heated regarding this topic and in all honesty this is a voluntary role although the amount of time stated may coincide with a real life day to day job it is at the end of the day voluntary. I respect every Mod/Guardian that continue to do the work and go beyond what’s expected and they know who they are, I drop simple reminders to let them know they’re doing amazing BUT saying it and showing it are 2 different things so on that note PLEASE dive over and sign up on Temp Check that’s live at this very moment so we can finalize what path to take TOGETHER!!

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I promised I wouldn’t come back here and I have to break it. @inb4emotion sorry for that, but you tagging me sent me an email notification and I can’t let that stand. Thought about it pretty much the whole night on how to approach this. everyone can skip the first half without missing anything, everything actually about the topic is in the second…

One way of interpreting this. The other is “I don’t have as much time and might have missed something, tried reading it nevertheless”. But yeah, can be read the wrong way (if you want to - and yes, that comment is on purpose)

Wrong. Implying that ANYONE who would be in the position to decide their own salary would. Just common sense. No insult there either.

Can’t believe to say this but you are right. It can be an insult. However not giving arguments but insults is kinda… showing exactly that :smiley:

Not sure why that needs to be the topic here but if you feel motivated to read through my discord history, do it right. I also doubt you read through 3.800 messages, especially the ones couple of weeks ago (maybe months, lost the feeling for when my motivation decreased). Looking at my profile here you can see that I still care for the project deeply though. Creating draft proposals, proposal ideas to make the situation better.

No need to comment that I guess ^^

Now finally to the actual topic that needs to be discussed here:
I agree that it is hard to determine how much the limit would need to be. Unfairness included - very difficult topic. I don’t see a solution and I understand that it looks unfair - but both ways. Why is it fair that someone with lower costs of living can have an amazing life from the payout while others need to look for a second job to feed their family? The same way: Why would the same work be paid differently? I still go with costs of living. At the end of the day you need to pay rent and food - at the very least. Meaning people that live in lower costs of living countries will always have way more after all fixed costs. Maybe a compromise would be to not entirely remove this “advantage” but to meet somewhere in the middle. That would be “fair” in my definition.

But there is a reason why there a plattforms like fiverr, which I use frequently, exist: The prices from people in developing countries are way cheaper so I hire them instead of paying for the service in my country. Basics of economy and supply and demand. They still can live from it because the pay is fair, heck one of them I’m still in contact with is now an arts professor thanks to fiverr which changed his life. But there was demand. Here - sorry to say this - I right now don’t see such a high demand and just saying “but in the future we will have many more discord users” and therefore more demand may be correct but it may not be either in the next months or even years.
I’m still for hiring and paying keepers and keeping guardians as volunteers or lower pay contractors (with lower hours required) that can be promoted, if the high demand comes. I think we all wish for that to happen but until then, we should keep the treasury in balance.

Lastly: Could you kindly identify yourself with your discord handle? Perhaps we can switch for the personal insults to DM’s on discord :smiley:

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Heh I deleted my previous post because I didn’t post as a reply, here it is again:

Not sure why that needs to be the topic here but if you feel motivated to read through my discord history, do it right. I also doubt you read through 3.800 messages, especially the ones couple of weeks ago (maybe months, lost the feeling for when my motivation decreased). Looking at my profile here you can see that I still care for the project deeply though. Creating draft proposals, proposal ideas to make the situation better.

I didn’t. I just skimmed over it and that’s why I posted those points - because its relavant. Like I said in my previous post, I didn’t say you don’t contribute. But, I think you need to be somewhat “special” and patient to be able to deal with complaining people every single day. You assume you have it, and I don’t agree with that, but that’s ok. Neither of our opinions matter on that front. Just want to point out others can have different opinions.

I don’t see a solution

I do and I’ll get to that in a minute.

Why is it fair that someone with lower costs of living can have an amazing life from the payout while others need to look for a second job to feed their family?

Wow this is, in my opinion, a cutthroat way to look at things. You pay people for their work. If you like their work, you pay them well. If you have a team, and if they produce good work you like, you pay them all well. That’s it. The way you look at things, you seem to have a % over minimum wage of their country that you are willing to pay for each job. X position get 50% above, Y job gets 80% more etc. This is literally the definition of penny pinching and profit maximization.

But there is a reason why there a plattforms like fiverr, which I use frequently, exist: The prices from people in developing countries are way cheaper so I hire them instead of paying for the service in my country.

I love that you brought this up. Have you noticed there’s a meme for NFT projects by fiverr artists? it’s a meme for a reason - it perfectly exposes projects that just want cheap artwork done, create hype and sell this hype. It sounds like, in your world, more projects should go through this process. Why pay a real artist? Pay someone in Asia to get it done cheaper.

We should take this further to illustrate your point to its maximum extent. In order to preserve the treasury and ecosystem, we should only hire developers from Asia. We can save at least 20% that way. We should have no other western employees. This would save us more than 50%. It’s a strain on the treasury. I’m sure we can find equivalent people. Doesn’t matter that you like the people currently working for the project and you are willing to pay them to keep them happy. Our goal is maximize profits.

See what I mean? At the end of the day a company/business/DAO is a living organism. Every part may not be the most efficient use of scarce resources but at the end of the day the most important thing is having all the organisms parts working together and equally motivated, and with no sense of resentment. The cost of that is less efficiency, but at least this way you move forward and are not dealing with employee churn and dissatisfied staff. Making a project succeed is hard enough already, and infighting just makes everything that much harder.

Lastly: Could you kindly identify yourself with your discord handle? Perhaps we can switch for the personal insults to DM’s on discord

I didn’t insult you once over this exchange. If I’m mistaken please let me know. Not sure why this is relavant - there’s DMs here too. I feel like the next step after that would be a KYC., so no thank you :smiley:

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Well seeing that you do not want to give out your discord name here kinda speaks for itself I think that is up to you.

Not really. I said “give them a fair amount so they can have a good life”. That is still way more than the supply+demand approach that would be “penny pinching” and profit maximization.

No I have not heard of it. Same as my mod application I don’t see the relevance but alright, I’ll bite: I don’t use it for some NFT scam but for an old-school 2D pixel RPG I’ve been working on for around 10 years. I don’t have money to pay an artist in Germany so my options are - no graphics or “cheap” graphics from Fiverr from a very real artist. Three of them can have a great life from their work on Fiverr (the only ones I’m in contact with). They offer it cheaper than in Europe but still high enough to make a good living - localization of prices.

You know what? Yes, 100 % yes. IF they are the exact same person with the same skills, 100 % yes I’d prefer a lower cost employee - as long as I can still live with what I’m paying them (double or in some countries 5x the average monthly salary doesn’t sound like a cutthroat to me). Again, not as a goal to maximize profits but to come to a fair ratio between costs of living and… well you know where I’m coming from. But clearly we differ here. I want the mods to have a good living - being able to really enjoy life. What I don’t want however is that they earn 3x of what a teacher in set country earns, or a nurse or whomever.

Again, we heavily differ here in our opinions and I’m afraid we would only keep exchanging the same arguments. I’d be happy to end it here and take the chance to thank you that we kinda went back to a less aggressive discussion.

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Just want to say thank you to all the mods keepers and guardians. When I first came to CU. I was a total newb/noob in the crypto world. I knew nothing. I had been to other discords briefly. Why briefly. Because the discords were toxic and the no one answered questions or were willing to help. At CU I found a community and mods that were kind and attentive. I found a community. The mods answered questions and helped me understand a world I knew nothing about. I give them 100% credit for teaching me how to become part of the community and give me the spirit to help others. With that spirit gave me joy. I wish I could give more to the community. But give what I can everyday. Thank you mods for inviting me in and feel accepted and appreciated as a part of the community. :heart:

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Everyone here seems to have a different idea of how to reward mods for their time that they spend here. I think we are all grateful and want to show that appreciation by rewarding them. What we seem to have the biggest trouble communicating is what to reward them and how much to reward them. To my understanding the fund that will give out rewards consists of RBW. So RBW is really what we have to reward people who contribute and give to the community. In the focus of passing this proposal the first time and using everyones time constructively. Maybe a poll like temperature check with people answering how much RBW each tier should be rewarded. Then we can use the majority or highest voted reward figures and use that for the vote. I think this would give proposal the greatest chance of passing DOA with a majority vote.

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Hey, timetraveler. Happy to mention that the temperature check to determine the reward amount is currently live on KS! Anyone is free to add their suggested reward whether in USD or in RBW. To anyone who hasn’t voted, it’s here!

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I’m sure the work of the MODs for the previous six months, should be paid for.
Remember how much was spent of time and energy in those summer days when the game took to the dark forest of our unicorns because of the error hangs.
Most (but not all) of the guys in those days were out in full force in discord.

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Temperature Check Result

Hello, everyone! As we’re nearing the conclusion of all our discussions on this topic, I’d like to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and ideas on how we should move forward. As we work to become a fully independent DAO, we’ll find ourselves in more situations like this where we, as a collective, might not immediately find a solution and agree on things at the onset - and that is okay. The DAO is composed of many individuals with different opinions. It’s the diversity and the different perspectives that will help us grow and be better as an organization. At the end of the day, I trust that despite the differences, everyone made their decisions based on what they personally think is best. Thank you being a partner in governance. :handshake:

With that said, I’d like to present the result of the recent temperature check on the CUIP-003 Amendments (Mod Reward). The temperature check has concluded with the following results:

Q1-1: Should the high tier reward be pegged at 1000 USD?

Yes - 4,862,790 (46.33%)
No - 5,632,204 (53.67)

Result: No.

Q1-2: If not, how much should the reward be?

250 - 1,460,968
333 - 50,000
500 - 3,825,081
700 - 2,051
800 - 165,384
1000 - 20,000
more than 1000 - 2,007
1500 to 2000 - 2,000
based on location - 16,200

Result: 500 (USD of RBW)

Q2-1: Should a lower tier be added?

Yes - 8,176,880 (64.29%)
No - 4,541,751 (35.71%)

Result: Yes

Q2-2 If yes, how much should the reward be?

100 - 5,220,228
200 - 2,699
250 - 41,456
300 - 56,000
400 - 165,384
500 - 257,197
1000 - 2,712
250-500 - 32,289
50% work, 50% reward - 2,051
Smaller rewards like what is currently being given to mods. - 2,000

Result: 100 (USD of RBW)

As we’ve received a clear signal, the proposal has been edited and will be sent for a council review soon. To review its current iteration, please check the main post or click the link below.
:link: Reward Amendments to CUIP-003 (Mod Program) - Draft Proposals - Crypto Unicorns

Full result of the temperature check may also be found here:
:link: Notion – The all-in-one workspace for your notes, tasks, wikis, and databases.

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Hello, everyone! This proposal has been forwarded for the governance council to review. I will post the result as soon as it’s concluded. :bowing_woman:t2:

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The council session for the Mod Reward Program Amendment proposal has just concluded, and I am pleased to announce that we’re now ready to share the result:

Mod Reward Program Amendment Proposal
Yes to moving to Snapshot: 11
No to moving to Snapshot: 0

With this, the Mod Reward Program Amendment proposal has been moved to Snapshot for the sRBW holders’ consideration.

Snapshot: Snapshot
Start: December 09, 12:54 PM UTC
End: December 14, 12:54 PM UTC

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The voting period for this proposal has ended. Snapshot

For: 63,339,267.03
Against: 149,606.05

Total Votes: 63,488,873
% Participation: 44.18%

We have successfully passed CUIP-009 - Mod Program Reward Amendments. As the December cycle has already started using the previously-approved program, this program will be applied for all activities performed from January 2023.

Thank you for taking part in governance. :handshake:

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