Poop Scrolls: Uses and Function

Hello, Jekinsh.

Thank you for the response. I’d like to once again reiterate that this will not take away resources from any of the items in the roadmap. Rest assured that tuning pushes/rebalancing is a regular part of live operations that exists outside of the development.

You are correct that there are indeed alternatives like your example of balancing the poop directly - which addresses one of the two goals. This is an important experimental step for us as a DAO and rest assured that we will respect the result of the review for this proposal regardless of the result. If the community collectively decides that this proposal is not warranted, then the proposed options will not be implemented and we shall look for alternative ways to achieve the stated goals.

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Do I understand correctly that:
Goal 1 - slow inflation of seeds
Goal 2 - improve poop gathering functionality ?

Quite similar, yes.

  1. Enhancing the Poop Collection Feature
  2. Decrease Seed Output from Poop Collection

I have 7/10 land classes on a 3x3 farm so don’t suffer from this problem. I do have a seed surplus and am strategic about how I use it. I am not quote, ““hoarding seeds in anticipation/speculation”, other than that aspect being part of the GAME! The quote, “culprits behind seed inflation” are LG (1 year and we’re still waiting for jousting) and I commend them for suggesting steps to correct any mistakes made. LG has a 28 million dollar treasury and it came from the community so please remember that players are quite entitled to try to earn some of that input back again. Finally, I do support any and all changes that benefit the greater good of the CU family and look forward to voting on poop scrolls in due course.

I fully support any initiative to make it easier for new players to play a little more self sufficiently.

Hoarding is fundamentally an economically detrimental effect. Usually a well developed economy has a high velocity of money. Less RMP transactions means that things aren’t accurately priced, and usually means a more stagnant and slow economy. This is pretty evident from the price of seeds. Most recent KZ prices for seeds:

His discord thread had more comprehensive data.

What’s even more shocking is this:

That is the cumulative seed balances from the data warehouse.

EDIT: For clarity, the above 9 colors represent the 9 class seeds. T1 seeds and plain seeds haven’t been included.

People are just hoarding seeds like there’s going to be a big payout at the end. From a macro perspective this never ends well. These whales are going to be very angry once seed prices start going down. And the moment prices trend downwards people will rush to sell (slowed down slightly by corn count, but most of the stockpilers are whales, so there’s no shortage of corns) and prices will crash. I am supportive of anything that creates a more stable “reserve”. Not this ever increasing stockpile.

The reason this hurts smaller players is if you have < 5 lands and <12 unicorns, you are getting a ton of rewards that you aren’t using. Especially if you consider most of these players don’t have high harvest bonuses. So once you plant the seeds that you use, you have to plant to sell. But you can’t sell immediately because you have to reach the bundle threshold. So smaller players are stuck waiting for them to reach this threshold to sell so that they can buy the seed that they want. Sometimes even planting the seeds is not viable for them because the bonus isn’t good enough. So they literally have to have empty fields and keep collecting poop/gather till they get enough seeds to sell.

The answer to this is of course to spend more money buying the seeds. But fundamentally in this market people don’t want to keep pumping money into a game. Ideally once you put some money in, you are able to progress slowly without feeling “stuck”. If you want to progress faster you can pump more money in.

The current system greatly benefits whales. They have enough lands to keep hitting the threshold, and if they choose to sell they can do so. But they aren’t because the prices keep going up. So it’s a game of chicken whales are playing with each other and when a few start running for the exit the prices will crash as everyone will try to get out at the same time. The person deeply affected by this is the smaller player who is stuck with higher and higher seed prices in the meantime and stuck waiting a while to collect enough other seeds to sell. At certain points you run out of berries to gather with (happened to me many times even though I’m a larger holder), and then if you don’t have RBW to buy more immediately you’re only playing the poop collecting game till you can gather again.

We need a way so smaller players are not so reliant on this RNG of seed drops, and they can focus on getting the materials they want so they keep keep playing the farm sim. The poop sim is pretty boring, so anything to make it more interesting would be great imo.

The only people affected by the change are the huge stockpilers looking for a payout. Again I implore you to look at the above chart. That is not natural of any economy. You ideally want raw materials to be “used” not stock piled.

Every game will have stockpilers and that’s ok, but if literally everyone stock piles the result is never good. If smaller players can avoid the game the whales are playing and get the materials they need to advance, it would be a lot more motivating. Right now it feels like you need a “large” base to get started recursively, and if you start small, there’s a whole lot of waiting.


Support Option 2:

The present new starter position (two unicorns and one land) is a very hostile environment in comparison to the Day 1 starter experience. Of the options presented, Option 2 provides the better in game experience for new players to selectively acquire critical materials necessary for early game development.

Q. would the poop redemption quest be tied to a quest board, or would it be a global quest?

I’ve already written that this stat without a breakdown by class is not objective, as the lion’s share of seeds according to this stat are regular berries.
Further, based on what you write, in order to get RBW in the game, then the accumulated packs of class seeds you don’t have, you have to sell to buy the seeds you need for your class.

I agree with Jekinsh.
It turns out that this innovation is seriously changing the dynamics of the game at once:

  1. the original plan was for players to save up to a pack of 50 seeds and sell them on the market
  2. Laguna takes a commission of 3% for this
  3. Players need to have an adult unicorn to do this
  4. In case of a large number of seeds - you have to restore energy to the unicorns, which costs class berries
    And to say that this innovation will not significantly affect the game…?

And I’m not quite sure why not add a third option, against both options?

What do you mean? That graph IS by class seed. Each color is a different class seed. There are 9 colors there. It’s the 9 class seeds. Plain berry, and T1 seeds are not even included.

Where did you infer that these are regular berries?

And to say that this innovation will not significantly affect the game…?
And I’m not quite sure why not add a third option, against both options?

I think we should be opening to adjusting the game dynamics where necessary. If we stuck to everything that was planned in the beginning and never changed anything we will 100% have a terrible game in 1 year. Every good game developer changes roadmap according to what the game needs. Not stick to some design despite it showing evidence that it’s being harmful to the game.

Hello, WINTER_AND_SUMMMER. There are two goals we want to address in the next rebalancing.

  1. Enhancing the Poop Collection Feature
  2. Decrease Seed Output from Poop Collection

We can definitely look to other easily-implementable alternatives that meet the same goals as Jekinsh suggested. However, this situation presents us with a unique opportunity to add depth to the poop-collection feature while adding more “moments of joy” into the game, especially for new or low and mid-size players and we took that opportunity.

I’d like to clarify though that there are many ways to get Goals #1 and Goals #2 and we are open to other means to the same end. If the DAO ultimately decides that the two options we presented aren’t viable, we will look to apply alternative ways.

Like many others I am not sure that this will accomplish the goals, I would also like to point out that “hoarding” is happening on virtually ALL items in RMP not just seeds. So this proposal will probably have to expand to all items in RMP and not just seeds.

I would suggest that the “hoarding problem” is not caused by speculation as much as other imbalances in the game. For example, the cost (energy, time, and fee) of selling on RMP prevents many people from actively trading. Another example, before the recent event I was selling on RMP every day, I haven’t sold 1 thing since the event as I don’t have the surplus energy to do so.

This proposal is imply adding another cost (more time, energy, etc…) to obtain something, in this case poop scrolls/seeds, will not balance the game but create yet another imbalance. In addition, since the scrolls are non-tradable this creates yet another dead end asset that will be accumulated and unused.

My suggestion to the problem… simply reduce the friction of trade (time, energy, fees), open the market up to more items, and create more needs for the items. By doing this you will find that as Crystal players need more seed/berries that Crystal seed/berry holders will sell/produce more and and balance the assets.

As one example of more balanced trade… LG could improve RMP to allow more customized market options. For example, allow the selling of bundles where I can sell 1, 5, 10, 50, 100, or 200 seeds (items) at more efficient prices at the same costs… As a seller I will be able to use less energy and pay less fees and the buyer gets a better deal. Do this for ALL items in the RMP AND add more items to the RMP and you will find that balance will happen naturally.

Lastly, poop scrolls, whatever those are… I won’t touch one… that is gross unless there is hand sanitizer being passed around.

Thank you for the clarification.
I am an average player with 39 lands and 160 unicorns.
I can’t get enough of my class seeds and periodically buy packs of 10-20 on the marketplace.
The class berries I don’t use - I sell on the market, with that money I buy the class berries I need.
I was getting there by investing and then reinvesting from the game.
You are now proposing to “simplify” the procedure for new players.
Have you thought about the prices we had when we entered here?

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Generally speaking, based on the appearance of this proposal, it would be logical to advocate reducing seed in trolleys, as was done at one time, because it is from the trolleys and not from the poop.

Not a good idea, imo, unless the goal is to kill the carts. They used to be really good, now they are just “ok”, reducing items again will make sure that no one gathers any more.

Sir, you are not an “average” player. You are a whale in the game. An average player has one wallet. If you expect to onboard retail they are not going to throw $1000s into the game immediately. They will want to spend a much more reasonable amount to test before deciding to spend more. A few land and some unicorns itself costs about $100 which itself is considered to be expensive by many for a game just to get started.

I think you’re sort of proving my point here:

I can’t get enough of my class seeds and periodically buy packs of 10-20 on the marketplace. The class berries I don’t use - I sell on the market, with that money I buy the class berries I need.

This is a waste of resources. We shouldn’t have to keep selling to buy the seeds you need. The only reason you are able to consistently sell is because you have multiple full wallets. If you have 3 lands you cant sell immediately. Also why should you be wasting resources by selling and then buying back the thing you need. Wouldn’t it be easier to just get the thing you need?

You are now proposing to “simplify” the procedure for new players.

If anything it’s less simple. The scrolls will be part of some larger mechanic to get the items you need. This, if an anything, makes things slightly more complicated. But at least new players with few lands aren’t waiting around collecting poop.

Have you thought about the prices we had when we entered here?

Yes but have you thought about how we are going to onboard the next 10,000 players? That wave of new players will literally be buying our bags. If you make the game boring for people who only want to invest $100 into the game, then we will never invest more. Very few will look at a game and immediately invest $1000s.

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I would second this, or at least ask for a simulation to be done as to what might happen to prices and RMP activity if time and/or energy costs are removed for selling to RMP, as I agree that this would be a better solution to hoarding.

Also, if we go for either option suggested by LG, won’t that just push hoarding of materials up to T2/T3 items, as opposed to seeds?

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This is an interesting idea! Maybe they could allow unicorns to carry multiple bundles? For each BP used, you could carry X additional bundles for example (and still use only 1 energy). X could be 2 in the beginning and can later be tuned. So most unicorns will be able to carry 5. This might get people to start selling their T1 seeds.

This might reduce barriers to selling and in some ways is less intrusive way to get people to circulate the seeds.

Another option is to set a limit on the number of seeds that can be stored in an account.
Currently this figure is 20 thousand, lower it to 5 thousand.

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The council session for the Poop Scrolls: Uses and Function proposal has just concluded, and I am pleased to announce that we’re now ready to share the result:

Poop Scrolls: Uses and Function
Yes to moving to Snapshot: 6
No to moving to Snapshot: 5

With this, the Poop Scrolls: Uses and Function proposal shall go to Snapshot for the sRBW holders’ consideration.

:link: Snapshot: Snapshot

Start: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 5:50AM UTC
End: Sunday, February 5, 2023 5:50AM UTC